So how come the NBA currently revolves around Kobe? I mean, it was clear the 80’s were all about Bird and Magic, and the 90’s about Jordan. But if anyone claims that Kobe is the equivalent of those individuals for our current decade, they would be met with harsh resistance. This is exactly why Kobe is the most complex character to analyze in this study. What makes Kobe so freaking complex? Honestly, it’s the hate. There has never been a superstar on the level of Kobe that was hated so much. Yes, Jordan, Magic, and Bird were hated by rival fans and certain pockets here and there, but not in such a universal way as Kobe. The closest analogy I can come up with is Barry Bonds. You know, hated by so many people even though he was arguably one of the greatest ever. But there are some major differences with Bonds and Kobe. For one thing, Bonds deserved most of the hate; his personality was abrasive, he’s at the center of a steroids scandal, he’s never won a championship. Even though I personally don’t hate him, I can rationally explain the hate towards him. But the hate for Kobe is rationally unwarranted.
I’ve thought about this for a long time, and the simplest way I can explain the hate towards Kobe is really because of Michael Jordan. That’s really the essence of the whole thing as far as I’m concerned. Kobe is the only person who has a serious chance of threatening Michael Jordan’s legacy, and that pisses people off in an unprecedented way. Nobody will ever admit this, but it’s the rock-solid, foundational truth to this entire Kobe saga. Just think about it; I hate Jordan like no other player. But why? Because Jordan legitimately challenged Magic Johnson’s legacy. Well, the same goes for Kobe and Jordan because people love Jordan way more than the Laker fans who like Magic. The world is in love with Michael Jordan. People who don’t know squat about basketball love him and will defend him to the death. It’s quite sickening. Even after all these years, a lot of people have forgotton seeing him play (many people aren’t even old enough) and his legend and myth has grown to ridiculous levels. He’s become like the Paul Bunyan of basketball. You ask anyone about Jordan and it’s like he never missed a clutch jumper, he was never a loser, he was a perfect teammate, he never had a bad shooting game, he was an unstoppable defensive force, etc. The man did no wrong, and his legend will only grow from here on out.
To see how this relates to Kobe, we must first get rid of certain ideas that routinely mislead people. The first thing people like to say is “You can’t compare the two. Kobe is his own man, and Jordan was his own man. You can’t compare them.” Bullshit. Kobe and Jordan are so similar in their basketball skills that you would have to be blind not to see the resemblence. Magic and Jordan would be a relatively difficult comparison because they played so differently and had such different strengths. But Jordan and Kobe is a very easy and natural comparison. The other thing to disregard is the idea that “It’s all about the rings.” I’m sorry, but you don’t get to reduce something this complicated to simply how many championships a player has. In fact, before you bring any number or statistic into the equation, you must deeply consider all the factors involved with those numbers (like era, rules, teammates, role, style of play). Let me make it easy for you and just say, forget about stats altogether because they don’t explain anything at all. All stats do is manipulate people and mislead.
That being said, any objective observer of basketball who saw Jordan and Kobe play has all the right to claim that Kobe could possibly be a better player than Jordan was. At the very least, even if you claim that Jordan was better, you can’t say it’s by a lot, or else you are delusional. Consider their respective offensive abilities; what is there that Jordan could do that Kobe can’t do? How about vice versa? I think it’s pretty obvious that Kobe’s has way more range offensively than Jordan did. I don’t think Jordan was ever a 3-point threat. I don’t even think his jumper was quite as deadly as Kobe’s (you have to be able to see beyond the different defenses being played in their respective eras).
But that’s where all the hate comes from. Like the commercial says, “There can only be one.” Yes, and to everyone in this world, that One is Michael Jordan, and don’t you dare try to invade his turf. Well, what about LeBron, you ask? It seems as though people would love for LeBron to be the next Jordan. The problem there is that LeBron is not nearly as skilled as Kobe, so he’s not really a threat to Jordan’s legacy. Only Kobe is, and people will do whatever it takes to prevent him from taking what they think belongs to their beloved, do-no-wrong hero.
…part 4 coming up
(I could go on for pages about Kobe vs Jordan)
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Hi Aram -
I appreciate you taking the time to write your thoughts, and I will share mine. The reason people dislike – or hate – Kobe is not exclusively because they see him as a threat to the aura of greatness that people identify with Michael Jordan, but a host of factors.
At the time Kobe entered the NBA, the expectation of all basketball players was to pay your dues in college and then enter the NBA. Kobe forgo that route, and entered the NBA directly. Remember, there are as many or more college fans than pro fans. And most are both. Thus, he skipped a role that most fans want to see fulfilled. (By the time LeBron entered the NBA the expectation to play college hoops was minimized.) Furthermore, the manner that Kobe announced his intentions – combined w/ his high profile prom date – gave the appearance of overconfidence bordering on arrogance. Off to a bad start.
Unlike MJ, Kobe immediately entered onto one of the premiere sports team franchises teamed with the most dominant center in the NBA. He was not required to work his way up on either a small-town franchise, or a poor performing team (e.g., MJ and LeBron). As a 17-year old he was immediately thrust into the limelight on a very good team, while simultaneously the media hyped him as the next MJ when he was still a benchwarmer. Again, this did not endear him to most basketball fans outside of LA.
His reputation was hurt the greatest by two events during and shortly after the Lakers three-peat: the rape allegation and the split up of the Lakers. Nobody knows – other than Kobe, the woman involved, and a higher entity if one exists – whether the charge was true. However, this is not a charge that people look the other way at. Unlike, MJ’s gambling or infidelity, this is a charge that people look at in a much harsher light. Very rarely does someone yell rape to get a paycheck. Thus, people suspect something disturbing occured. Again, a black eye to Kobe.
The breakup of the Lakers will probably go down in the history of all professional team sports as one of the most head scratching incidents among a championship caliber team. No one has quite seen anything like this. How can two premiere players who win three titles not be capable of setting aside any personal differences to continue their run? At the end of the day, more people thought Shaq was less guilty (notice I did not say innocent) because he was the player shipped away. Furthermore, Coach Jackson stated Kobe was uncoachable. Again, another huge negative in the public relations arena for Kobe.
Kobe has resurrected his image somewhat over the past few years. However, the dislike or hatred among so many stems primarily from the reasons I mentioned above, with a small assist to those – including myself at times I have to admit – who believe Kobe comes a little too close to knocking MJ off the pedestal.
Now, let me address you other point – that Kobe is somehow MJ’s equal or heaven forbid his superior. Unlike yourself most people do believe that stats are critical. In that regard, Kobe’s career averages are lower in ppg, shooting %, assists, steals, rebounds, and blocks. There is not one major category that Kobe exceeds Jordan. (it is even more apparent if you disregard Jordan’s final 2 seasons as a Wizard) You can certainly make a case that Kobe was a greater three-point shooting threat than MJ, but unequiviocally Michael had the greatest mid-range game of his generation. (In addition to his ability to get to the hoop, and very good long-range ability.) Go on You-Tube and watch performances of Michael in his pre-championship days and you will notice that the vast majority of his points came from mid-range jumpers. He simply was able to create a high-quality shot from anywhere on the court.
You also decide to diminish the importance of championships rather believing there is a multitude of factors involved with determining a champion. In reality, this is the greatest case for the superiority of Jordan. If you look back at NBA champion team there is one constant with every champion – A significant center or low-post threat on offense and/or defense. Every team with the the exception of the champion Chicago Bulls for six years had a center (or a center masquerading as a PF – Hello Garnett and Duncan) who was a primary player on their team.
This is why many of the greatest players in the history of the NBA either never won a championship (e.g., Baylor, Stockton, K. Malone, Nash), or won a sole championship when they were paired w/ a great big man (Robertson, West, and Erving.) If none of these players could win a championship without a big man do you really believe Kobe is capable without a significant presence in the middle? Somehow, Jordan was able to win six championships (and six NBA Finals MVP awards) with centers of average skills. (Cartwright and Longley) People state “Jordan had Pippen”. True, but West had Baylor, Stockton had Malone, and they both never won a ring. You simply require a very good center. Period. I would argue that it’s very possible Magic or Bird would never have won championships without Kareem and Parrish.That’s Jordan’s greatest accomplishment in my book.
Furthermore, you left out the importance of intangibles. The hardest thing to measure. It’s impossible to believe that Russell matched Wilt’s abilities, however he somehow found a way to beat him again and again and again when it counted. Great players not only improve their game in the most critical moments, but are able to improve their teammates as well. Jordan was not only the greatest clutch player – it’s hard to apply that nickname to a player who only won 1 ring – he was able to get his teammates to perform as one. I just don’t think Kobe gets it like Jordan did. And, I think many more people agree with these points, rather than have a knee jerk hatred for Kobe.
Thanks,
Bart
Bart! First of all, thank you for what is currently the best and longest reply on my website. I truly appreciate your thoughts.
Now, obviously, I am going to have to disagree with you on several points which I don’t have the stamina left to write at this point (sorry!). I’ll just make a couple of quick points. First of all, the reason why I don’t like using statistics is because using numbers like statistics to prove an argument is a lot more complex and difficult than sports fans know. I am about to begin a graduate statistics degree, and let me tell you, there is no statistic that has been collected over the years to help the argument for who’s better than who. Honestly, this is purely subjective, and I’m not going to convince you of anything and you sure as hell probably won’t convince me of anything. (I know I act like these are “facts” but I’m just having a little fun here…shhh!! Don’t tell anyone!). The other thing I wanted to address is the rape. I think people already hated Kobe, but before the rape, they didn’t have any good reason for hating him. The rape just made it easier to say why they hated him. That’s my opinion.
Anyway, thanks so much. I will try to address your reply officially in a future article because it is very well thought out.
kobe is skilled. he definitely has more range than mj. if you look at where he takes his jumpshots, he is on average i’d say 2 ft. further away. he has perhaps superior ball handling one-on-one adroitness. mj is skilled. he has athletic prowess that allowed him to knife to the basket (wade’s skills are eerily similar). his hands as you know…are huge. he had some uncanny ability to will the ball into the net…when it most counted. kobe has not won without shaquille, if not the greatest bigman, very close to it. until he wins the championship without shaq, it does not make any sense to compare the successes of the two…YET?
just as the gentleman mentions above, there is the notion of ‘intangibles’. people just do not like kobe. i think this is beyond science. there are countless ADs of kobe appearing beside youths in the NBA campaign commercials. many many endorsements highlighting his personna and image of him. BUT, natural personality shines through at the end of the day. you can’t hide nature…
i can’t really analyze my own dislike of someone. do they look weird? how they react to something…positive or negative? do they smell? do they not do as they say they will… i’m sure this has been studied from the inception of men/women – but i’m an engineer so i wouldn’t be expected to know would i? some things are just too difficult to explain. somewhere deep in the depths of his soul…there is something people just do not seem to like. and sadly, if he’s not ‘popular’ then it runs wholly along the lines of greatness. the NBA would love for the opportunity to jump on the bandwagon had kobe been so popular and likeable. is the NBA economic/marketing manager or board…whatever you want to call it…saying ‘let’s take a hit on sales and popularity of the NBA and spite kobe and keep mj’s greatness alive…even though mj really does nothing else for our league except air jumpman23 commercials and have misfortune in the gm and ownership positions’? i don’t know to what extent, but i believe kobe and mj have mutual respect for one another (maybe only in the public eye…but that’s another story). this is the perfect script for the passing of this ‘throne’. unfortunately, the media, the nba, the fans, the casual observer, they do not take well do the personality of kobe…and this inherently affects his entire image and this hate you describe.
i do not like kobe. i respect his abilities. i think he impresses many with his prowess. i’m sure mj would agree that kobe’s skills in some aspects are superior. BUT, he has not won…(i’m sure even if he does win…the critics, whether bulls fans OR lakers fans will point to 6 versus 4). secondly, he is not someone people ‘like’.
Jay,
You’re a nice guy, but I disagree with you on pretty much everything except the following:
Yes, MJ’s hands are huge and allowed him to do certain moves that Kobe couldn’t. Personally, I think Kobe more than makes up for that with, um, more skills in general.
Wade is pretty good, but without the new generation NBA rules, he’d be nothing more than a 20ppg guy. If Kobe could get the touch foul calls going to the hoop that Wade gets, Kobe would be even more destructive in the paint than Wade. Go watch Wade. Often times, he’s simply looking for contact. Kobe is always looking to make the shot. That’s because Kobe can make the shot, Wade doesn’t have the moves Kobe does, so he puts all his effort into getting the call. Sure, a spectacular shot goes in sometimes, but he’s no Kobe. Don’t get me wrong, I like Wade, I think he’s clutch, but don’t compare him to Kobe. Wade got gifted a ring, Kobe got robbed of two rings.
All you guys incorrectly put too much emphasis on winning. Winning is important, but in a team game, there are so many factors, including luck, that are involved in actually winning a championship. So the number of rings is not the end-all-be-all to who’s better. How about Stockton and Malone? Are you saying they’re not two of the greatest players ever?
I’ll explain for you. You’re a big time Kobe hater. Big time. You will never be able to see how good Kobe is because you hate him so much. You need to go to haters anonymous. And your man-love for Ginobli is enough to make your girlfriend jealous. How’s that?
you can hate kobe bryant all you want. he probably hates you too. beside let’s see you get on the court and play. kobe is a strong player and people are jealous of his popularity. there are alot more players in the nba i can hate than kobe. kendrick perkins, most of the celtics. kobe is a much better person than most of the nba . he is married (except for the rape charade) he doesn’t go around chasing women with his dollars like the whole nba players do.
I think this shirt says it all: http://4thandforever.com/product.php?category=men&type=tee&page=1&name=fuckobe
I believe after reading all the comments before and the article above that some strong points were made. They asked Phil Jackson to describe the similarities between the two and the differences. Phil Jackson used these descriptions. Jordan had bigger hands (that was mentioned earlier in one of the comments), Kobe has more range (he sounds hesitant when making this comment but of course he knows it is true) Kobe tends to score high at random and has scoring streaks, Jordan scores high when it counts. The list goes on and on (I’ll provide a link to the video so you can see it for yourself) and I DO believe that comparisions based on who is better is FOOLISH. I am a former college athlete and avid sports fan and one thing has ALWAYS held true. You can never truly gauge a person’s potential in a game situation. Why? Because some days they will have good games, sometimes they will have great games. Some people physically peak around championship time, some people peak afterwards when it doesn’t count. The human body is a complex thing. Second the mentality of a player also goes through ups and downs before, during the game, and afterward. So basically I am saying we can compare them based on their similarities but we can never find out who was better although in my opinion (just like Phil Jackson) I do think Kobe is more skilled. Lebron is more physically gifted than both of them but lacks the skills to even enter into this discussion. I agree that stats are not a true reflection of one’s overall abilities. Wilt scoring 100 is not even comparable to Kobe’s 81 or Jordan’s Eastern Conference 60+ points against the Boston Celtics. It is true that Jordan was the most dominant player in his era and NO ONE comes close in this regard. But then again the rules were different, and Jordan had no Kobe’s, or prime Shaq, or Wade, Lebron, etc.. to contend with. If you look at Jordan’s resume it looks virtually impossible for Kobe to match it especially this late in the game and Lebron is looking like he too won’t reach his achievements and why? Because Jordan was the most dominant player in his era and no player in any era has ever dominated in their era like him. Not even Bill Russell who won 11 straight championships. Don’t believe me? Check out his pedigree and you will see. Virtually impossible to repeat that, kobe even said it “The game is different.” The players of today are stronger, faster, tougher, in part because of advancements in sports medicine, physical therapy, physical conditioning programs, and globalization of the sport. So even if Kobe wins this championship (which him and the Lakers will probably do) his detractors will continue to degrade his career, and his accomplishments. We will probably NEVER see another player dominate like Jordan in part because he entered the league (at the perfect time) This is why for all the reasons you guys mentioned above, even if they were taken away, people will still hate on kobe. Because his dominance in his era wasn’t equivocal= to Jordan’s era. The hatred for Kobe affected his chance at MVP awards, as well as him playing on Shaq’s team. People complain about Shaq leaving? If he didn’t Kobe WOULD NOT have grown into the player he is today. The team was too much Shaq-centered. He was always the first option, and Kobe the second. This is my analysis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s
Very nice, knowledgeable comment. I’m very glad you are a real basketball player. I feel too many fans don’t understand the game well because they have never experienced what happens on the basketball court. Even some ballers don’t understand because even though they play a lot, they don’t study and analyze the game. But it’s always good to hear the analysis of a player who is also intelligent and capable of reasoning.
And I agree with what he says. Kobe will never accomplish the things Jordan did simply because of the different era. But don’t let the stats and accomplishments blind you from seeing that Kobe’s actual skills as a basketball player are very similar, and in many instances, superior to Jordan’s.
I’ve heard that interview from Phil Jackson before. He brings up some good points. The only part I don’t agree with is at the end where he talks about field goal percentage. I don’t think that is a fair barometer because the rules and styles of play are so much different. The game is much more perimeter oriented now, and we have the zone. The importance of the 3-pointer has increased so much. And Kobe gets hacked way more with no-calls than Jordan which reduces his percentage. So, that’s the only part I have issues with.
Here is another link. Magic asks Phil in 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hO8PQTjFU
Just a list of his accomplishments in his “era”
# 2 Olympic Gold Medals – 1984, 1992
# 6-time NBA Champion
# 6-time NBA Finals MVP – scored 40 or more points in six games, and 50 or more in one game
# averaged 33.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, and 6.0 apg
# 5-time NBA MVP
# 10 NBA Scoring Titles
# 14 NBA All-Star Selections
# 3-time NBA All-Star Game MVP
# 11 All-NBA Selections
# 9 All-Defensive Selections
# NBA Rookie of the Year – 1984
# NBA Defensive Player of the Year – 1988
# NBA Slam Dunk Contest Champion – 1987, 1988
Holds NBA Playoff Records for:
* points per game average, career (33.45)
* points, career (5,987)
* points, single postseason (759, 1992)
This is only an excerpt but you get the point.
I beieve kobe is able to stand toe to toe at his best against Michael but Kobe can NEVER stand against his legacy. His dominance in his era was unprecedented. Who else do you know wins EVERYTIME they reach the NBA FINALS? He never entered an NBA finals empty-handed Won the FINALS MVP and won MVP 5 times all while being only 1 of two guards to ever win defensive player of the year and being 10 time scoring champion while averaging 50% from the field. His dominance will probably never be matched and if it is, that player will have to be superior to Jordan in ever category to have a chance to pull it off. And he’ll need a team to back him. Also people bring up Jordan’s lack of a center but they forget Rodman is possibly the greatest rebounding forward in the history of the game. He had a career average of 13.1 rebounds per game. He was also one of the reasons the Bulls won 72 of 82 games in the regular season. An NBA record.
cant deny the skills that kobe has. i hate kobe for a few reasons, kobe doesnt try to be himself, he tries to be like mike. go out there, do your damn thing, and be you. dont swing on jordans jock strap! also dislike the way that kobe tries to emulate jordan when he talks, that even goes for his facial expressions. watch him during the post game press conference, and tell me im wrong. again kobe, be you, and not try so hard to be jordan. another thing, leave your tongue in your mouth. no one needs to see you flick your tongue around after you make a shot.
I must say that matt sounds word for word like the “classic” kobe hater. Their paranoia goes so far as to grasp at the concept that his speaking skills and facial expressions are somehow related to Jordan. Does the younger generation not emulate the older generation of the past? Whoever created the fade-away jumper or popularized it did they make all future players copiers? NO! We take what works and incorporate it into our system. This is how advancements in science, technology, and the arts emerge, and this is how players like Kobe when you think you’ve seen it all, show you something amazing. I have never seen a player who “doesn’t try to be himself.” Why? Because at that level of play, mental toughness is the foot in the door. The moment you start doubting yourself in the NBA is the moment you will be packing your bags and going home. Non-athletes don’t understand the importance of mental toughness. If the game is the storm, then mental toughness is the compass. If you lose your compass your lost in the storm of the game, media, and expectations of those around you. When that happens, you would lose sight of your goal, your progress, and even possibly your identity. A person who has no identity and attempts to imitate someone else won’t make it in the NBA at the level of play of Kobe Bryant. Because when its crunch time, as the leader on the floor it is just you and the clock. If you don’t believe in yourself you won’t be able to achieve. Anyway matt made a strong statement with no intelligent follow-up to provide foundation to his points. Sports has always been an endeavor that provides self-realization, and improved self-esteem when done correctly. It doesn’t however teach you to become a clone of someone else, and many times more empowers you to attempt to surpass your childhood idols.
Kobe is way better than MJ..If you would compare the type of games during MJ’s era. A lot of young players today really did a good job on Kobe but kobe still the best. Respect my opinion.
No way Kobe is greater than MJ, nor his equal.
1. Kobe doesn’t dominate in the playoffs or Finals like MJ.
2. MJ was a “great” team leader, Kobe is a leader, yes, but not in the same class as MJ.
3. Kobe is a cry-baby, yes MJ complained, but nothing like “Ko-baby”.
4., MJ had more class than Kobe, gave his teammates and competition credit. MJ was respected as a person, Kobe is only respested as a player.
5. Kobe just doesn’t make the players around him better the way MJ did. Although MJ struggled with this early in his career, he eventually learned how to make his teams better, Kobe has gotten better, but at times still struggles being the consumate team player….take tonight’s loss to Memphis as a perfect example.
The incident in Colorado was costly for Kobe’s reputation and even though he was never convicted, he did pay-off his victim. Doesn’t quite figure for an innocent person.
Most people hate Kobe because of his personality, not because of any comparison to MJ. And for many years Kobe didn’t have any friends on his own team. He just doesn’t have a likeable personality. Almost everyone liked MJ regardless of which team they were a fan of….only Laker fans love Kobe, everyone else hates him.
And I disagree with the author, Kobe doesn’t threaten MJ’s legacy, primarily only Laker fans think he’s MJ’s equal and the majority of the media knows whose the all-time greatest. Lebron is still young and currently its unknown whether he’ll challenge MJ’s legacy.
I personally will be glad when Kobe retires and we don’t have to hear this argument anymore….its way over done.