I‘m saying Kobe is equal to Michael Jordan. He’s Michael Jordan 2.0 if you want to quote me on it.
Just like Michael Jordan was Julius 2.0 even before the championships and the accolades.
There are 2 things that people can’t seemed to admit. The real reason Kobe’s FG% is lower then Michael Jordan’s. It’s not because Kobe can shoot better so he chooses to shoot so much more. It’s because the defensive rules have changed. Sure they have changed offensively. But not in Kobe’s favor as an individual player. He is still clutched and grabbed like its 1996. Not ’86. But ’96. On top of that he has to face a LEGAL zone. On top of that the players he plays against are much more athletic and longer at the positions that may guard him. PG, SG, and SF. Everyone who’s short has super long arms and super quickness/hops nowadays. Everyone who is of normal SG height is just as tall as KB or taller, or just as long and just as (if not more) athletic in certain categories. And less in others. But not nearly the difference of athleticism from Michael Jordan to Joe Dumars. And Dumars was supposedly his toughest defender. How about a 6’9″ Marion, or a 6’9″ AK47 chasing you down? You want Dumars? Fine , I go with Bowen in his prime with Timmy D sitting back in a zone. Bowen is about as athletic as Dumars. But Bowen is 6’7″ with long arms. There’s a reason they had him on Dirk Nowitski. Dumars would have never been able to guard a PF; even a jumpshooting PF.
So its much tougher for Kobe to get to the basket.
And let’s be honest. Michael Jordan has never scored 70. He’s never scored 62 in 3 quarters and had more points then an entire top tier scoring team in the NBA. NEVER.
It means this. You may throw a lot at Michael Jordan. But you have to throw even more at Kobe. ‘Cause one thing is for sure. Kobe CAN beat you…ALL…BY…HIMSELF. You’ve seen it. I’ve never seen Michael Jordan SINGLE handedly DEFEAT a team like I’ve seen Kobe do it 2 or 3 times. I’ve seen Michael Jordan GO NUTZ, and still lose. I’ve seen Michael Jordan go nutz but Scottie have 20 and change and they barely win. I’ve seen Kobe go BALLISTIC while his 2nd fiddle is barely scratching double digits. And he took his team from 20 down to up darn near 20 . HE scored 81 points. That’s called beating a full roster ALL…BY…YOUR…>SELF. NO MAN except for Wilt was able to pull that off. NO ONE.
So all this Michael Jordan has this, Michael Jordan has that. There is nothing softer about how defenders are allowed to play Kobe(not others but Kobe). And the kind of athletes that play Kobe vs the guys that played in Michael Jordan’s era with legal handchecking but no zones. And illegal D violations.
They had to bring out defensive gurus and the DPOY to slow Kobe down. Have they ever done that to Mike? NO. They did hack the living daylights out of Mike which was terrible in my opinion. But after that, Mike was granted Whistles that Kobe has never been granted in his career on a consistent basis. If they ever give Kobe his due calls, like say next year, Kobe would average 40. Or his team would cruise to 80 games worth of 20 pt blowouts. One or the other. We know this because we’ve seen it happen. The guy sits on 30 with 2 fts. That kind of crap.
Now talk about defense. Well, Michael Jordan had great defense. But let’s be realistic. There’s a reason Kobe can only shut people down for stints and not whole games like Michael Jordan could back in the day. The rules changed. You can’t touch people above the ft line. And they dont want Kobe shutting anyone down cause thats not the push from the NBA of today. The push is scoring or so they hope it is. The push is manufactured perimeter stars by giving them insane calls to keep the defense off of them so they can shine at an early age. So it looks like the league is full of super ball players VS back in the day where you had to be a man and get by another man without all the ticky-tack crap. Proof that Kobe would shut you down all game if the rules were old school. What did he do to Barbosa in the NBA? Not much. What did he do to Barbosa in fiba? LOCKED HIM DOWNNNN. That was all the proof you needed.
Kobe=Michael Jordan 2.0
One day we may see a Kobe 2.0 and when you do. DON’T HATE HIM.
Aram while I may agree with you that some parts of Kobe’s skill set is superior to Jordan’s I don’t think you can demote Jordan and rise Kobe to a 2.0. Why? Because he is not that much better (if he is at all) than Jordan. The dangers of arguing over who was better vs. a past legend and current legend is simple speculation. I only defend Kobe when they make ignorant comments like he is egotistical, and selfish. People act like last year all of a sudden Kobe started passing the ball. He HAS been passing the ball, but the stupid media promotes the idea that he is selfish and idiot fans eat it up. Part of the reason why people hate Kobe is the media’s fault, just as much as why they love Jordan. But TRUST me, Jordan was every bit as good as Kobe bar none. Please go look at some old tapes of Jordan especially when he was young. He was a freak of nature on the offense and was a scoring machine. Remember that when Jordan came into the league on the Wizards at 38 and some change and played till he was 40 he scored 50pts a couple of times and broke the record for the oldest person to score 40 or more points. So give the guy some credit, he had tendinitis, had stopped playing professionally for A LONG space of time and still entered the league schooling the young players. I respect Kobe and am a professed fan but I don’t go overboard. I do believe that Julius Erving was just as proficient a ball player as Jordan. He just entered the league past his prime after carrying the ABA on his shoulder. Erving’s scoring records in that league rivaled Wilt Chamberlain’s records in the NBA but nobody talks about it. Jordan was a picture of consistency, patience, and discipline. The one thing I will say Kobe lacked early in his career was patience. If he found a better way to resolve his conflict with Shaq (Although Shaq and the Laker management are also at fault as well as Phil Jackson) he wouldn’t be hated as much as he is. So I disagree with Kobe being Jordan 2.0 unless you are saying he is an update on time, and not skill level. Remember when he scored 81, it was NOT on a championship caliber team. Jordan scored 61 in a playoff game with a championship caliber team as a young player. Larry Bird still professes “Jordan” as the “best” player he ever played against. I believe that Julius, Michael, and Kobe would be a perfect match up to see. i would also like to Scottie Pippen get in the mix, because he was HORRIBLY underrated. By the way if your beating an entire team just from 81 points, that is because that particular is not having the best of nights. Could say the same for Hakeem “The Dream” Olajuwon when he got a quadriple double which is much harder in my opinion that 81. Even though without a doubt 81 beats Chamberlain’s 100 but hey that is another discussion.
Well, I understand that it’s very difficult to say whether Kobe is actually 2.0 or not. Personally, I truly believe Kobe is an upgrade in skillset over Jordan, but I also admit that it is close overall. So i don’t have a problem with that. But if we’re talking about individual games like Jordan’s 61, or Kobe’s 81…I do want to emphasize one of PostandPivot’s points:
Kobe outscored Dallas in 3 quarters 62-61. This was not a scrub Dallas team. This was the Dallas team that was 2 games away from winning the championship that year. So, let that be noted.
Illegal D was hardly called and the elite teams back then were able to get away with it. True zone are still not allowed in the NBA because of a defensive 3-sec rule. While Dumars may not be the defensive presence Bowen was, Dumars is a lot better offensively and has a Finals MVP. Also Bowen has recently said that Jordan is the toughest player to guard (and he never had to face Jordan in MJ’s prime). Shawn Marion better defender….no. Not even mentioned on a All defensive team. The average NBA player was at it’s tallest in 1987.
Kobe scored 81 points against one of the worst teams in the NBA, a non-league game at home. Jordan scored 69 @ Cleveland (a playoff bound team that year) and 63 @ Boston in the playoffs against the NBA championship Celts. The overall game for Jordan was a lot better in those games that Kobe.
Defensive gurus….what about the Bad Boys Pistons and Celts, both good defensive teams back in Jordan’s day. The Jordan Rules….that’s all you need to know about how far one team would go to stop Jordan. Didn’t work well enough for them to stop Jordan….just the Bulls.
Kobe’s skill set is better than Jordan’s and Phil Jackson will tell you that, but he also said Jordan’s the best player he’s ever coached
What really separates Jordan from Pippen is Jordan’s ability to up his game in the playoffs while Kobe’s game goes down. Jordan was unstoppable in the Finals, you didn’t see that from Kobe as Kobe sucked in the 04 and 08 Finals. Only Finals MVP to shoot beneath 50% each game of the Finals in 2009. Guys had some difficulty guarding Jordan as a Wizard, just imagine if he was in his prime (from 1984-93)
beating a dead horse…
Kobe’s not even top 10. Jordan,(than in no particular order) Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Kareem , Oscar Robertson all have done more.
Sorry, Aram. I can only follow you up to a point. Decent thesis, though. Here’s what you left out (it’s the only thing that matters):
NBA Finals MVP’s
Jordan–6 (not a typo)
Kobe–1 (not too shabby…)
Out.
Please…don’t ever become a lawyer.
your wrong noboby had more 50+ points than mj. wilt behind jordan, kobe only one 50 point. come playoff time is a real basketball ‘a real basketball offent is post season not regular season.
You must one of these guys that base all your arguments on stats. There’s no point arguing with you. Kobe only had one 50-point game?? Wrong.
remember score,rebound, assist and stealand block come together, and dont forget mj 69 points,18r, 7 asst, 4st, 1 bl.
Stats don’t mean a thing if you don’t understand the environment that led to those numbers. I’ll bet you didn’t even see that game.
Aram – I think you doeth protest too much about Kobe. He’s nowhere near MJ’s league. Look at the most important stats:
Career scoring average
MJ – 30.1
Kobe – 25.1
Titles
MJ – 6
Kobe – 4
Scoring titles
MJ – 10
Kobe – 2
MVP awards
MJ – 5
Kobe – 1
Defensive Player of the Year
MJ – 1
Kobe – 0
All-Star
MJ – 14
Kobe – 11
Finals MVP
MJ – 6
Kobe – 1
All-Defensive First Team
MJ – 9
Kobe – 7
All-NBA first team
MJ – 10
Kobe – 7
Gold Medals
MJ – 2
Kobe – 1
No matter which way you cut it – Kobe comes up way short.
Your just being a stat whore. Numbers don’t mean anything. Assuming you know a lot about the game of basketball, what you have to do is watch hours of video of Kobe and hours of video of MJ (and I have), and you will see who is better. Numbers are nothing. Robert Horry has 6 rings, and Karl Malone and John Stockton have none. What does that mean? Is Horry better? Baketball is a team game, and a LOT of things have to fall in place to win a championship. Kobe could score 40 a game if he wanted to. Kobe himself has said how fortunate he is to have been to so many finals. There’s not guarantee that just because you are the best player, you will have a shot at the title. Numbers are nothing. If you understand basketball on a deep level, you will see that it’s very difficult to argue that MJ is that much better than Kobe, like everyone assumes.
I heard an interview with George Karl awhile back. He was asked to compare Kobe and MJ.
He paused and said if the two played a game of one on one, Kobe might beat him, and that his pure athleticism is incomparable to other players before him, with the possible exception of MJ. He then said that if he were asked to build a basketball team from the ground up, he would without question start with Michael Jordan, because MJ possesses the rarest combination of qualities found in any athlete. His leadership, inspiration to his teammates, his expectations of his teammates which summon their very best night after night, his deep respect for the game at all levels, his bulldog competitiveness, in addition to the arguably the greatest talent to ever play the game, place MJ in a class by himself forever more, regardless whether anyone ever surpasses his stats.
Well said George…..
“Your just being a stat whore. Numbers don’t mean anything.” I sincerely hope that you were exaggerating. Of course stats mean something. Otherwise they wouldn’t be kept, and nobody would take note of them. In fact one of your focal arguments involves the use of statistics: that Kobe Bryant could score this or that many points, 81 pt game, 62 in three quarters, outscoring a team. Are those not statistics?
Now see here, I am a Kobe fan. I believe he is the second-greatest shooting guard ever to play the game, behind only Michael Jordan. He is the best player in the game today; I put LeBron as second best. That being said, there is little doubt in my mind that Jordan was the better player (and note here that I am not calling him the greatest ever to play the game, as I have never seen Wilt, Russell, etc. play).
From Kobe himself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awoqiCFWjGI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhrZXO6mZa4. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Isaiah Thomas, some of the greatest players in the history of the game, say that Michael Jordan is the greatest to ever play the game. Shaq, who has played with Kobe, agrees completely that Michael Jordan was better than Kobe (see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHxsUktkYOM).
You contradict yourself in your article as well. You use defense in different eras in two different ways to support two different points. So Jordan was a better defender because he was allowed to be more physical. Yet you disregard that very fact when it comes to Jordan’s prolific scoring. And then you laud Kobe’s outlier games (81 points, 62 in three quarters) in an era of bad defense. Remember the league changed hand-checking rules specifically to increase scoring output, specifically to give offense an advantage over defense.
You must not have watched Michael Jordan when he played…it is quite clear that he was the superior player. His skillset is most certainly NOT inferior to that of Kobe’s; this is something that is obvious had you actually watched Michael Jordan when he played.
To Ramsey,
It’s not contradiction when you actually pay attention to what I said.
Let’s break down mjay’s era real quick from a defensive point of view. But make sure you pay attention to this detail: The way mjay was played defensively by others was the SAME as everyone else in that era. Meaning – everyone got held, grabbed, pushed, handchecked and basically hacked all game long. That was the nature of defense on the perimeter back then.
Mjay’s era:
Man to Man: 90′s style defense (hand checking, etc)
Team Defense: Man to man Defense (NO Legal Zones)
Elite Defenders: Bigmen
Whatever advantange was held by Mjay over his defenders? Smarter, more skilled(fundamentals), more willpower to win, more athletic (stronger, faster, quicker, can jump higher, can jump and reach his peak at a quicker rate then most)
**Dumars was Mjay’s best defender PER MJAY. Dumars was under 6’5, barely (if ever) dunked, wasn’t extremely long, wasn’t the strongest guy, and wasn’t the quickest. But he was somewhat strong, and would hold and grab mjay.
Kobe’s era: remember this key point–Kobe is played up close defensively, the same way Mjay was played in the 90′s, but now add zone defense to that pot of gumbo. NO other superstar is allowed to be played like this in the nba (not bron, not wade, not melo, not even Gil arenas pre gun incident).
Man to man: 90′s style defense ( handchecking, etc.)
Team Defense: Complexed Zone defenses + all man to man defenses from the 90′s
Elite Defenders: Perimeter players
So what advantange is held by kobe over his defenders? Smarter, more skilled(fundamentals), more willpower to win.
Kobe’s best defender per some BSPN thought: Tayshaun Prince( 6’9″, super long wingspan, quick, fast, handchecking, grabbing, holding kobe)
Last, but not least, Mjay had Scottie to run point for his team. Mjay also had two dead eye shooters in Kerr and Kukoc. Great shooters = easy assists. The fact that Mjay’s bigmen were decent passers but not great = more chance of getting an assist as opposed to Gasol and LO destroying a kobe assist because they chose to pass the ball to another teammate for that open shot. Which is why Mjays assist numbers are higher.
It’s the same reason why Nash, CP3, and those guys have insane assist numbers. Yes they are great pg’s. But they have the perfect people on their teams to be a high assist guard.
1.) Have a bunch of dead eye shooters off the catch, not the bounce.
2.) Have a few finishers around the rim (amare types, marion types, Tyson chandler). You want more proof? Its the same reason Lebron’s assist numbers are so high. He has shooters on his team that wont dribble his pass out or make an addition pass half the time (Dwest, gibson, parker, zeek, and moon). Bron also has finishers (shaq,hickson, and Moon).
So at the end of the day. Mjays assist numbers are ballooned. So in reality he has about as many assist as kobe or less.
Defensively kobe has a harder time then mjay. Because they play up on him like it’s the Mjay era, and they run zone defenses.
Again, Mjay had Pippen(point forward/point guard) that could handle the load of running the offense while Mjay played a single role (scorer).
KOBE has always had to be Mjay and Pippen of this team. He is playing both roles and doing pretty good at it. Every time you see kobe get a chacnce to only be a wing player only. He starts scoring 40+.
One more thing to notice, unless something changes in the next few years. Mjay used to get robbed by the officials early in his career. They hated him not passing the ball all the time like Magic, Stockton, etc. So they let detroit physically abuse Mjay. But once those years were done. He got all the calls, all the time.
On the other hand, Kobe Bryant has been in the NBA how long now? And he still cant get those types of calls. And he probably never will. Kobe gets no breaks which is why he is the best SG to ever touch that basketball.
I am not going to try to argue with you because you are clearly biased and headbent on declaring Kobe is the best shooting guard. First off, most of these elite defenders that you say came out of nowhere were in their prime when MJ was basically an old man in the wizards. You remember Paul Pierce… the man who gave kobe so much trouble in the 08 finals? Yeah well Hoopsencyclopedia has a video on youtube lighting Pierce up for more than 40+ points, this was with zone defense by the way. If you ever saw MJ play you would quickly know that he was the fastest NBA player to ever live. It amazes how people today emphasis so much on lebrons speed. MJ was even faster than Lebron. MJ also had a huge hands. This allowed him to drive to the hoop (with his speed) get the two points and the foul. Now he did this during an era that was more of a focus on big men. Fouls was not how you won the game… compared to today which every superstar.. especially kobe bryant who lives at the free throw line.. If MJ was playing today with these weak rules.. he would easily be averaging over 40+. Kobe Bryant is an excellent shooter. Since Kobe doesnt drive to the ball (which is because he is a weak driver… not because of great defense) I would even say he is the superior jump shooter. However when I see players like Dwade drive the hoop who isnt even in the same league as MJ and Kobe.. then I am more than certain MJ could do better.
A bit bias article here..if anyone thinks Kobe is actually superior to Jordan then they haven’t MIchael play, or they were rooting against him during the 90′s
The argument for Kobe’s low shooting % is that he’s playing against bigger faster players? Really? Explain Wade and Lebron’s 49-50% shooting percentage please? Kobe has always taken ill-advised shots and will continue to cause that’s part of his game….and that’s his biggest weakness….Jordan’s had bad shooting games (9-36 in playoffs against Heat) but never bad shooting seasons, Kobe’s had like 3 or 4 seasons shooting below 45%…that’s when you need to have good teammates to cover up your ill-advised shots
Defense? Well you just contradicted your theory, if MJ was allowed more contact on the perimeter on defense, wouldn’t that make it harder for guards to play back then? I’ll admit, ’96-98 Jordan was very overrated on defense…he didn’t deserve the All-Defensive teams those years…but pre-retirement Jordan was the best perimeter defender in the business, right up there with Pippen and prime GP
Now, the most underrated part of Jordan’s game…his skill set…first of all, Kobe’s skill set is fantastic, he can go left/right, pull up, his footwork is impeccable, fadeaway left/right, pivot/reverse pivot, etc. etc….sound familiar? ’96-98 MJ was the best post wing player ever….if you’ve seen his games you’d know…you see…all the things Kobe is doing now in the post? Jordan did them, but quicker and more precise…a reason why Jordan shot 47-49% while being a exclusive jumpshooter those last few years as a Bull
In the end though, Kobe’s skill just simply doesn’t make up for Jordan’s natural athletic gifts….big hands, natural speed, natural jumping ability, etc. Everything that no matter how hard you work, you can’t get…Jordan can take one dribble and be at the rim with a dunk…who else in NBA history can say that besides Lebron…
I love Kobe to death as a Laker fan, but Kobe Bryant over Michael Jordan? That’s an argument that simply can’t favor Kobe
I haven’t even argued the NBA Finals performances and Kobe is already beat
mj can school kb any day, any where, any time, thank u!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but kb is still ok.